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Daniel Tlach - 2008-04-11 07:14:30
IMHO Google App engine does NOT need support for PHP, because it's made for Python developers, not for PHP developers. Also this engine is not made for websites by default.
I know, it's hard to understand that somebody ignores PHP but Google does NOT need PHP developers. They need Python developers and this is their way how to get some :) No, there is no need for PHP support in GAE.
And don't missunderstand me - my primary language is PHP, then Perl and Python. But we simply can't try to push it everywhere we want to, especially if it's really not needed.
Manuel Lemos - 2008-04-11 07:42:06 - In reply to message 2 from Daniel Tlach
That is your interpretation. According to this TechCrunch article "Google says that Python is just the first supported language, and that the entire infrastructure is designed to be language neutral".
I would agree with you if you said that this project was used by Python zealots working at Google to push their favorite language.
However, Google is not a language company like Microsoft pushing C#/.NET or Sun pushing Java. So Google has a business has no point in pushing Python. The core Google business is based on C++ and Java applications, not Python AFAIK.
The matter is not if Google will support PHP and other languages, but how soon they will do it. Letting Google know that we want to be able to run our PHP Web applications in their infrastructure using the Google App Engine, is important to PHP community as a whole.
Rupom Razzaque - 2008-04-11 12:30:23 - In reply to message 3 from Manuel Lemos
I agree with Manuel. So we all should let Google know our combined voice.
Daniel Tlach - 2008-04-11 15:35:11 - In reply to message 3 from Manuel Lemos
AFAIK Python is also one of Google engine languages. But I may be wrong. Support for PHP will be nice in the future but it's not necessary now. And I think that PHP will be on of the first supported languages. Maybe not first but one of them.
PHP programmers makes great community and Google can't ignore it. So I think now it's not necessary to tell them how much we want support of PHP in GAE. They know it themself ;)
I have a question. Why we (as PHP programmers) need GAE to support PHP? From my position as Python programmer, I don't need GAE now, so I don't think it will be usefull for me with PHP support. Isn't it just because of it's Google? I hope not.
And also, GAE is made for creating applications and PHP is not a good in this. It's usefull in web sites but when you need to create app for parsing logs, working with big files etc., you will probably choose other language.
I don't want to look like I'm against PHP support in GAE. Just want to figure out why it's so important. So I'm not trying to convince you about it's a bad idea. Just want you to help me understand your opinion. :) Well, maybe I'm just slower and you said the point already :)
Manuel Lemos - 2008-04-11 15:52:39 - In reply to message 5 from Daniel Tlach
AFAIK, the only visible use of Python in Google is the help system, which is a simple content management system that does not require intensive use.
PHP is used in many heavy duty sites like Facebook, Flickr, del.icio.us, Digg, etc.. I have not seen Python applications running in similar heavy duty, but the performance level you can achieve with PHP is similar to Python because the runtime engines are also based in executing compiled bytecodes (Zend opcodes in the case of PHP).
The bottom line is that running PHP in heavy duty sites is not a language problem, but rather an architectural problem to deal with load balancing. If you use a smart approach like it is used in the sites mentioned above, PHP is not the problem.
If you do not see why Google App Engine is important to PHP developers, maybe that is you do not understand what it is.
Google App Engine allows applications to run in their infrastructure. Things like Google File System and BigTable replace the traditional server resources using non-scalable local file systems and MySQL or other non-clustered databases.
With these resources you can run Web applications that handle very high loads that are imposed by very popular sites. Think about running Facebook applications without being concerned if the servers will bust with the popularity of your applications.
Also, if you develop interesting applications, chances are that Google may include your applications in their Google Apps bundle that they sell to many corporations.
All this means more money to Web applications developers. But if Google does not allow PHP to run on their environment, we are out of the loop. That is why Google App Engine is important for PHP developers in general.
Rupom Razzaque - 2008-04-11 16:46:57 - In reply to message 5 from Daniel Tlach
>>I have a question. Why we (as PHP programmers) need GAE to support PHP?
>>From my position as Python programmer, I don't need GAE now, so I don't
>>think it will be usefull for me with PHP support. Isn't it just because
>>of it's Google? I hope not.
It's not bcoz it's Google. [In response to question] I can just ask you to look at Facebook Apps. They support multiple languages to deploy apps into their environment. Allowing multiple languages, they got better responses and more apps developed by developers from multiple platforms. So it's not only the PHP developers who need this; but it's also a need of Google if they want better and large number of applications into their environment. And I am sure they will allow PHP for their own need. But we want it sooner rather than later.
People interested in developing apps in GAE (no matter what the language/platform he works on) will like to deploy their apps into GAE environment. I donno why you don't need/like it. Is it bcoz you just dont like (or not interested) to develop such apps? Or is there any specific reason that you decided so for? Please share your views.
Daniel Tlach - 2008-04-14 19:37:12 - In reply to message 6 from Manuel Lemos
Thanks... That was what I wanted to hear. Now I can clearly see why it's important and also support it myself.