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David White - 2009-09-30 19:08:28
Wow! I'm totally astonished to see such a patronizing article towards PHP developers on one of the biggest PHP sites. Self criticism is important, but in this article it is far beyond the truth!
The question in't "Is PHP ready for Enterprise Solutions?" but rather "Is Microsoft ready for PHP?"
Software Engineers have been trying to get the best out of both worlds (PHP & MS products) for the longest time and now Microsoft all the sudden wants to make their plattform more compatible to work with PHP. I agree, that it is a good thing! I personally look forward to a smoother composition.
However, spreading the view, that PHP professionals are likely of not being able to create enterprise solutions is ridiculous. Where do guys get that from? Is it empirical from someone who suddenly gets some extra cash from Microsoft or is looking for the personal fame?
If we're talking about experience, then let me elaborate on mine. I have been working in the IT industry for over 10 years as an IT Consultant and Software Engineer now and have met Software Engineers with various backgrounds. There are certainly differences between a MS engineers and open source engineers, but if you want to talk about flexibility, then I can assure you that an open source engineer is more likely to be able to work in the MS environment then vice versa. Again, this is just my experience. I'm not saying, that an open source developer is the better developer, but if you want to have an IT Agency create a tailored made solution that will fit perfectly into a heterogenous enterprise IT infrastrcuture (be it for SME or large enterprises), then you're not going to look for an MS Vendor.
As for the salaries go, I also feel like this is a distorted personal view! I have been part of hiring process in both US and Europe and I can tell you, that in both cases we needed to budget for more cash while bringing in PHP professionals rather than MS professionals.
Manuel Lemos - 2009-09-30 20:45:11 - In reply to message 1 from David White
It seems you misunderstood some of the points.
As explained in the article, it is a fact that many large companies of the so called enterprise market only use Microsoft products, no matter what you tell them. Those are the companies that can pay better wages.
I lost count of how many well qualified PHP developers I know switched from working with PHP to Java and .NET . They all did it to make much more money they were doing working with PHP.
It does not matter whether you and others are well qualified. There will always be companies working with PHP that can pay you a reasonable salary. But there are much more large companies that can afford paying higher salaries if you work with Java and .NET .
Those companies are not cheap. Paying good money for Microsoft product licences is a small expense for them. So the fact that PHP is free is not a big advantage for them. They can also pay very high salaries to well qualified employees that work with Java and .NET.
Anyway, the point of the article was not to push anybody to work in the Windows world, but rather to open people's minds that if they are agnostic and become equally ready to work with either Microsoft and non-Microsoft technologies, they have greater chances to choose jobs that pay more.
After you adhere to the program, Microsoft will push you to the market of large companies looking for qualified PHP developers using the Partner Solution Profiler directory.
Furthermore, this initiatives will help you selling any PHP applications that you have developed. I know that many PHP developers are not used to sell their software through licensing. But with this chance that Microsoft is providing, you can start thinking of making a lot more money by developing and selling your PHP applications to businesses that are used to pay for licences of software they need.
If you do not agree and do not want to take this chance, that is OK, nobody will be upset. Other PHP developers will take that chance and will make more money they are doing now.
Jordan - 2009-10-01 18:46:15 - In reply to message 1 from David White
Yes PHP is already at enterprise level. There is noting MS is going to add
David White - 2009-10-01 22:42:51 - In reply to message 2 from Manuel Lemos
I agree, that software engineers need to be more "Engineers" and less "Code Monkeys" be it PHP, JAVA, .NET or whatever. Of course it is an advantage to be able work in various environments.
I disagree however, with the oversimplified argumentation, that a good engineering salary is tied to knowing Microsoft technologies or not. That is what Microsoft would like everyone to believe. It is ridiculous to see, who all is not only drinking the cool-aid but passing it on.
Manuel Lemos - 2009-10-01 22:51:56 - In reply to message 4 from David White
That is not exactly what I said.
The truth is that there are many large companies, especially in non-technological fields, that only use Microsoft products. They blindly trust on Microsoft no matter what you tell them. Microsoft is a trusted brand because they make money using Microsoft products.
PHP can be used to develop applications for those companies as long as they run on Windows.
Many of those companies make piles of money, so they can afford hiring expensive employees.
If you are very qualified, you do not have to work for such companies to make good money. However, with more PHP developers endorsed by Microsoft working for those companies the average salaries of PHP developers tends to raise, because other companies will have to keep up with higher salaries that the market is paying in average, or else they will loose their qualified PHP developers.
So, if you have any sort of "allergy" with the Microsoft world, you may end up benefiting from this initiative anyway.